> I realise that I'm being simplistic here, but I think it is far more 
> likely that morals generate the need for religions rather than religions 
> create morals.  Society depends on some moral consensus: what simpler way 
> to enforce this moral consensus than the reward-and-punishment mechanism 
> practised by religion? 
You make an interesting point here.  However, with the exception of 
adopting christianity for a brief time in my early teens in an effort to 
"cure" myself of homosexuality, I do not think that any of my spiritual 
pursuits have resulted from a need to codify or provide a 
reward-and-punishment framework for whatever moral beliefs I may or may 
not have held.
Reward-and-punishment schemes often seem to exist in correlation to how 
fundamentally a given religion is apprached.  Fundmentalists christians, 
for example, tend to be big on reward-and-punishment, whereas I 
personally know christians with more sophisticated approaches that have, 
for the most part, abandoned the reward-and-punishment scheme.
> It's difficult to convince individuals to behave 
> in ways that are ostensibly contrary to their individual interest - the 
> concept of "altruism" or "for the good of society" can seem pretty 
> nebulous.  So what do you do?  Invent a system of rewards and punishments 
> that transcend the immediate, material benefits of the action in 
> question, that's what.
Again, religion is, IMHO, far more than a system a rewards and 
punishments.  Besides, I think that most societies are able to enforce 
their standards of behavior through means that aren't entirely religious 
-- taxation seems to be an effective way for a lot of societies to deal 
with enforcing a sort of altruism.
 
> Of course, this raises the question of whether it's realistic to expect 
> human beings, at this stage in their intellectual evolution, to be able 
> to sustain a moral framework without the artificial incentives offered by 
> religions.  I'd like to be able to think that my fellow humans are 
> capable of being rational enough to behave according to a 
> societally-beneficial moral code or codes just for its own sake, but I'm 
> afraid I doubt it.  
You seem to imply that moral codes are things which, ideally, all human 
beings should have and adhere to.  Why?
--Jay
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			   jwt@dana.ucc.nau.edu
                       http://dana.ucc.nau.edu/~jwt
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