> I didn't say that animals are more intelligent than us, but that we=20
> can't prove that they don't think. Maybe they can't build a=20
> hydroelectric dam or write a symphony because they are incorrect=20
> anatomically for it. Only a few other species besides us have an=20
> opposable thumb that would allow that. =20
While it is true that animals communicate with each other, to the best of=
=20
my knowledge we have not found evidence that their methods of=20
communication are as or more complex than ours. Despite the fact that=20
some birds, for instance, can mimic human speech patterns, they generally=
=20
don't start engaging in dialogue with us... yet a human being learning to=
=20
imitate speech patterns does. =20
As an aside, I wonder if and how the opposable thumb and human=20
intelligence are related. Any thoughts, anyone?
> And maybe they don't have the
> intelligence to do what you say (although i would hardly call a=20
> hydroelectric dam a work of intelligence)=20
Um... have you ever taken a tour of one? Seen the plans for one? Talked=
=20
to an engineer who has worked on or studied one?=20
> but that doesn't mean that=20
> they can't think.=20
This is true. I'm just asserting that we have pretty convincing evidence=
=20
that we're more intelligent than they are.
> We have found that animals can learn, and they can=20
> use technology (low technology, but it's still technology). And=20
> gorillas have been able to learn sign language.
Yes, but as you suggest, the technology isn't very sophisticated. And=20
while gorillas have been trained in sign language, the level of=20
communication is still pretty basic -- nothing remotely close to what a=20
human using sign language is capable of.
> But just because we may be more intelligent than them (some of us=20
> may be, some i quite suspect) doesn't give us the right to exploit=20
> them. =20
Says who? You? God? Why should let either one you tell me what I do or=
=20
do not have the right to do?
> If we're going to decide or exploitable rights on who we are=20
> more intelligent then, whats to stop us from exploiting little=20
> children, old people, the brain dead, people in comas, retarded=20
> people, and so on. If we base our rights to exploit on intelligence,=20
> what about those with extremly low iqs or those that i have=20
> mentioned, many of these people are of lower intelligence than many=20
> animals.
Perhaps we would draw the line at self-interest. Is it in our best=20
interest as a society to exploit children/etc? Probably not. Is it in=20
our best interest to exploit animals? In some cases, maybe so. =20
Perhaps we should also define what we mean by "exploit". =20
So=CCE\4=DF5=C4=B6w=E7=DE=D3=DF=C3=DB=C3=D4^6w=F3=F6_=F3=A7=DF=B4=DA
And i have come accross people on my own campus (normal=20
> people) who i suspect may be dumber than my dog.
> Ron Ferrucci.=20
>=20
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=09=09=09 jwt@dana.ucc.nau.edu
http://dana.ucc.nau.edu/~jwt
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