> David Leeper wrote:
>
> Tad, sorry it took me so long to respond to this post, but it was
> rather large. In this response I'm responding to your Memetics part
> of the post.
>
> >All,
> ; >What is "Evolution"?
>
> ; Evolution consists of 5 components, which I will discuss below using
> ; examples from the following 6 areas:
> [clip]
> ; M = Memetics
>
> ; (1) SOUL. The first component of Evolution is a number. Or: information,
> ; or code, or data (the school guys will argue here that data is not the same
> ; as information, I know), or "the universal homologous form a la
> ; Wittengenstein"... For the sole purpose of sexy mnemonics, (you will see my
> ; point later) I decided to name it a Soul.
> ;
> ; The Soul can be seen as a number or code (same thing :-)).
>
> How interesting, Aliester Crowley insists that a number is a soul.
>
> ; M - An idea (meme, statement) written in some language. When I think of
> ; it -- it seems the language of memetics does not exist yet -- or the whole
> ; memetics as a branch of science is an illusion. I would like to ask
> ; someone with a Memetic Engineering degree what the equivalent of DNA in
> ; memetics is!
>
> Seems there are several answers:
>
> 1] Patterns of synapsis in the brain.
> 2] Patterns of 1s and 0s in computers.
> 3] Patterns of letters in a language.
> 4] Patterns of waves in sound and light.
> 5] Patterns of touch.
>
> Notice only 1] is living. 5] is used by living creatures.
>
> Notice all of these are patterns.
>
> Is _any_ pattern a meme? I don't know. Lets look at this from the point
> of view of Order, Chaos and Complexity.
>
> Order: Memes which do not change, or which change in an orderly mannner.
> Example: Mathematics.
>
> Our current level of knowledge says that Order is to rigid to
> support life. Given this, Orderly memes are not alive, they
> are all viruses.
>
> Complexity: Memes which change in sometimes orderly, sometimes chaotic
> ways. Examples: Emotions.
>
> Our current level of knowledge says that Complexity can
> support life. While not all complex systems are considered
> alive, I would say that complex memes are alive.
>
> Chaos: Memes which change in unpredictable ways. Example: Madness.
>
> Our current level of knowledge says that Chaos is too unpredictable to
> support life. Given this, Chaotic memes are not alive, but I'm not
> sure I'd call them viruses. Ideas on this?
>
> All memes can be mapped using Cohesive Math.
> http://home1.gte.net/dleeper/CMath.html
>
> ; (2) PROCESS. The second component of Evolution is a Process. The number
> ; (Soul) is controlling a process and producing a result.
> ;
> ; M - Ideas are controlling human (and other "chimps"?) behaviour.
> ; Actions taken are the results.
>
> This stage can be mapped using Cohsive Math functions.
>
> ; (3) EVALUATION. The third component is the evaluation or the "Judge".
> ; There is someone or something who evaluates the result of the PROCESS. It
> ; is an important and necessary element in Evolution. Who is judging in each
> ; of the following?
>
> ; M - Society (?) judges which ideas are "better", or maybe it is like in B
> ; where it takes ages to decide (maybe we are just kidding ourselves we have
> ; a say in memetics?).
>
> One of the problems I've noticed in my exploration of Genetic Algoritms, one
> which I think directly relates to memetics, is that the Evaluation function
> is often so weak that unfit individuals cannot be removed from the population.
>
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Begin Example =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> Generating creatures to walk through a maze. Fitness is based on how
> long an individual can walk without bumping into a wall. Individuals know how
> to go forward, backward, left and right. The also know how to detect a wall.
> The problem arises when "spinners" evolve. Spinners simply spin in circles.
> No matter what maze they're put in, they always walk and never hit a wall.
> Therefore they always receive the highest level of fitness.
>
> To solve this problem, a predator can be introduced into the environment.
> The predetor eats walkers it catches. Spinners are easy targets and quickly
> killed off.
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- End Example =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>
> Logic serves as a predator in the meme community. For centuries, the God
> meme was "spinning around", receiving the highest fitness. First physics
> and now evolution, are working on killing off the "spinner" God.
>
> ; (4) REPLICATION. The fourth component is replication.
> ;
> ; M - People spreading memes.
>
> Memes can be spread using 2-5 from the above list, reprinted here:
>
> 2] Patterns of 1s and 0s in computers.
> 3] Patterns of letters in a language.
> 4] Patterns of waves in sound and light.
> 5] Patterns of touch.
>
> I would say that forms of memetic replication are subject to at least the
> following two conditions:
>
> 1] Cross-over
> Components of one meme merge with components of other memes.
> Simple Example Using Cohesive Math:
> Replicating Meme: 3 (1 + 2)
> Specimen Meme From Host: 12 (4 + 8)
> New Meme Created In Host From Cross-over: 5 (1 + 4)
>
> 2] Mutation
> Replicating meme changes in the process of transmission to the host.
> Simple Example Using Cohesive Math:
> Replicating Meme: 3 (1 + 2)
> New Meme Created In Host From Mutation: 5 (1 + 4)
>
> Of the two types of change, cross-over and mutation, I'd say that
> cross-over is more common and more useful.
>
> ; (5) MUTATION. The fifth and last component of Evolution. Changes are
> ; necessary for Evolution to take place.
> ;
> ; M - The more I think of it the more I realize how undeveloped memetics
> ; still is. What causes mutations of memes? (Maybe I'm just in a bad mood
> ; towards memetics after the L3HV escaped from the laboratory and infected
> ; our list).
>
> I'd say that mutation in memetics occurs for reasons similar to those of
> genetics: They occur randomly and without need of a cause.
>
> ; MUTATION produces new SOULs and Evolution continues on and on... In case
> ; of DB and GA the process stops when the results are satisfactory for the
> ; Judge. In the rest of the cases it seems to be endless.
>
> ; One more thought: I like to think of the first (the DNA) area of Evolution
> ; as the universe developing us in order to experience and understand itself
> ; (whatever it means).
>
> As long as this is using the language of convienence, I'd agree.
>
> --
> David Leeper dleeper@gte.net
> Homo Deus http://home1.gte.net/dleeper/index.htm
> 1 + 1 != 2 http://home1.gte.net/dleeper/CMath.html
>
This David Leeper dude is smart too.
Eva