>Reed Konsler wrote:
>>
>> >From: Drakir <jonesr@gatwick.geco-prakla.slb.com>
>> >> They are still undocumented
>>
>> >Then surely they don't exist. Since the levels are conceptual things,
>> >until you make them up, they are non-existant.
>>
>> "VoM: the new SCIENCE of the meme" --emphasis, mine.
>> Richard has uncovered a true secret of the universe and is endevoring
>> to find more. The words might not have existed before, nor the
>> observations...but those levels exist just as surely as quantum levels
>> exist for electrons to occupy.
>
>As I understood the levels thing, they had to be defined, as to what
>each level refered to. I can't remember what the definitions of each
>level were, but level 3 was all about contradiciting memes in the same
>memesphere or something, wasn't it?
>
>Anyway, the point is, that the content of each level was defined by a
>person, and thus until someone defines higher levels, they do not exist,
>surely.
The model is invented. The underlying substance existed. The meme-engine
has existed since the dawn of culture, perhaps since before definable "humans"
existed.
The world is like a black box. You feed input in one side and look at what
comes out the other end. Based on this output you guess what is inside the
box. You can make complicated guesses, simple ones...whatever.
Just like in the game Tad described yesterday.
Let's say you desperately need a certian output...better hope your guess is
right.
Let's say you suspect you might need a certian output in the future...maybe it's
wise to invest a little of today's surplus tinkering with the box...maybe
it's even
worth sacrificing or risking death today to tinker with that box.
What's inside the box is real. But you will never see inside it...the best
you can
to is make up models to describe what you think must be going on in there.
The substance of the universe exists. "Quantum Levels" is a made
up story with the distinction that if you believe it, you can predict the
behavior
of certian kinds of matter in certian situations...should you ever find that
neccesary.
The substance of culture exists. It is real, but it plays by different
rules than
the rules of electrons...it is much more complicated, more chaotic. But the
one leap of mind we have made as a species that brings our own society
into the realm of science is "Darwin's Dangerous Idea" (and, I only very
recently have realize what a dangerous idea it is) Evolution by natural
selection.
That concept orginates (according to history books!) with Darwin. The
gene-machine precceds him by (according to science books!) at least a few
million
years. The substance preceeds our conception of it.
There are certianly more "levels" Perhaps I mean to say that we will discover
that there is a hierarchy of "stages" between level-2 and level-3. Or perhaps
level 3 is a misguided crutch, like Maxwell's concept of aether as a medium for
electromagnetic waves. The aether turned out to be unneccesary...it was
Maxwell's
equations that were important and that are still at the core of the science
meme-complex.
Who knows? Nobody. That is freedom...the undiscovered country.
Reed
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Reed Konsler konsler@ascat.harvard.edu
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